" Nepal Hindus in secular protest "

By Charles Haviland , BBC News

Thousands of people in southern Nepal have been protesting against a parliamentary decision to declare Nepal a secular, rather than a Hindu kingdom.
The mainly Hindu protestors in the southern town of Birgunj have declared a general strike in their area.

Eyewitnesses in Birgunj say the town has been closed down by an alliance of local Hindu groups, with some 6,000 marching in protest.

The country has been officially a Hindu kingdom for the last 40 years.

Divided opinions

With the symbolism associated with Hinduism, people are waving saffron-coloured flags, wielding tridents and shouting the name of the popular deity Ram.

They have also burned copies of a newspaper they accuse of favouring secularism.

Birgunj lies on the Indian border and local journalists say the protests have taken on the flavour of Hindu nationalist rallies more common in India.

Nepal is at least 80% Hindu. It has a tradition of religious tolerance and mixing, but also strong discrimination along caste lines.

Last week's declaration that it be secular is dividing opinion.

Organisations representing indigenous ethnic groups, many of whom are Buddhist, have welcomed it, so has a body speaking for the tiny Christian minority.

But some Hindu groups have expressed outrage, while others have questioned why change is necessary, given the country's general lack of inter-communal violence.

In a separate development, doctors across Nepal have gone on strike, protesting at the severe vandalising of two hospitals in different parts of the country.

In each case, large crowds alleged that doctors negligence had caused the deaths of patients.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/south_asia/5015456.stm

Nepali CNN, nobody said anything about uprooting Hinduism. It is about according equal status to all religions, no matter how small, in the eye of the law or state! I don't call posting the same message in different similar threads "propaganda". If people want to keep creating different threads to discuss the same topic (when one would have sufficed) I tailor my message slightly for these threads.

Do not worry, nothing will happen to Hinduism under "Secular Nepal". It will not get uprooted. If it does, then that probably means it has nothing to offer. So it might as well get crowded out by 'competition'. I, for one, think a distinctively Nepali kind of Hinduism will get much needed oxygen, since Hindu fundamentalism has been slowly choking it to death, so to speak!

Gandhi was taken out by a Hindu fanatic - not because he practiced self-restraint or went vegetarian. Why was he taken out? No point for guessing correctly. You see the parallel between Gandhi and Mr. Narayan Pokhrel? Hindu fundamentalism is a bigger threat to Hinduism than secularism! See what I mean? And all this happened not under "Secularism" but under "Hindu Nepal".

Nepali CNN, I am not here to provide facts. I'm not in a court. And besides, you are not a judge, and I don't have to be nice to you. Mr. Pokharel was allegedly taken out by Bharat Keshar Simha's henchmen. Why don't you look into it - you'll be all the better educated for it. You want facts? Why don't you call on your government to investigate this murder case!

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Kalp you have a pretty dim opinion of Gandhi. Why do you call Gandhi, who galvanised Indians to kick out the British colonizers, a sucker - why you hate him so much dude? It's not like Gandhi slept naked with your sisters to test his self restraint - of course not! No point getting so riled up about my reference to Gandhi! Man you the way you refer to Gandhi as if Gandhi were an untouchable. You know what I mean? I can see right through your mask!

---------------------

All I have heard from people arguing for "Hindu state" is that it will avert religious violence or rise of BJP and all that crap! "Hindu state" will not avert religious violence - and didn't certainly avert the murder of Mr. Naryan Pokhrel. Hindu fundamentalism has already taken roots in Nepal because the country's been a "Hindu state" for so long.

Under Secularism, moderate and reform-minded Hindus will gain lots of grounds they have ceded to the Hindu fundamentalists, who are actually religious bigots and supremacists.

I am afraid Kalpi, and Nepali CNN are playing right into the hands of the India-based fundamentali Hindu orgs and their stooges in Nepal.

The protests in Birgunj were orchastrated by a few royalists who have since been exposed by the local papers!!!

Karmapa or Gurumappa jee

Your reasonings are irrational. And, do not write something in an insulting way. About, Gandhi - the Indians say that he used to sleep naked with women of his daughters/ grand child's age and used to talk of self restrain. I have not read his autobiography though. It is not something unheard of about Gandhi.

Secularism is urgently needed where religious leaders dictate legislative agenda. In Nepal there was no interference of temple on the State

The word 'secularism' all of a sudden has become a hallowed and sacred word in Nepal's political parlance. It has become the most popular product for aggressive political marketing in Nepal. However, amidst the euphoria of newly gained freedom the possible ramifications of going secular from a Hindu state have not been well debated.

The very concept of secularism arose from an urgent need to put an end the tyranny and interference of the Church in the state affairs. It was based on the Christian theological concept that the material world is separate from the spiritual world and correspondingly the state should have sole jurisdiction over one and the Church over the other. In the case of Nepal we have never had religious control, i.e., legislations, such as in Saudi Arabia and Iran or as in Europe for the last 1,500 years.

Secularism in India has failed to stem the rising tide of intolerance in recent years. While Hindu volunteers demolished the controversial Babri mosque and a huge crowd of more than hundred thousand frenzied Hindu fanatics chanted slogans and danced, the Congress party which considers itself a secular party and which was in power then did nothing, but watched helplessly the constitutional rights of minorities being crushed mercilessly. A religious site of Muslims that are a minority in India was reduced to debris by the Hindu fanatics. The ugly face of political fraud in the name of secularism have become evident in numerous occasions in India: ranging from Bhagalpur massacre to Babri Masjid demolition. Indian secularism was unable to stop the murderous carnage in Gujarat.

The declaration of secular state may prove to be bane than boon for Nepali minorities. It may serve as a much needed inertia for the religious Hindu fanatics and may give birth to less tolerant Hindu outfit such as Shiv Sena and Bajrang Dal in India. If that happens, it will make religious minorities vulnerable than ever. If secularism is for political gains rather than preserving religious harmony, securing peace, and economic prosperity of minorities, SPAM (seven party alliance plus Maoists) has played a big fraud on the nation in general and on minorities in particular. Providing a variety of silly sops to minorities is not enough to empower them.

The author is doctoral candidate of Environmental Science and Public Policy at George Mason University, Virginia. Please send your comments to feedback@mos.com.np or hbdulal@gmail.com

The above article is by Hari Bansha Dulal and the full text of it is in nepalnews.

It's no surprise to hear that when someone tries to read the facts and base their opinion on facts - they charge us as falling into the opposing views like Hindu fundamentalists and so on. People are so fast to bring Gandhi's name to support their views but when I think of Secular Nepal under the threat of Maoists - Mao's Secular Communism comes to my mind. Maybe my mind is a little slow here, huh? Mao's Secular communism is considered as the greatest murderer of all times with more than 60 million murders.

As I have said in other posts that I would prefer secular Nepal but not under the threat of Maoists. Declaring secular Nepal at this time has definitely swayed some of the Hindu's to support the fundamentalists but who would we blame for this?

Talking about local papers supporting one's view - isnt that a joke? You must be talking about Kantipur Online I guess. Sorry, I stopped reading Kantipur online when they interviewed the so called Millionair of Nepal living in Spain or somewhere...

The GUY in nepalnews exactly reflected my ideas.That is the thing i was pointing out all the time.There are people in sajah who are good teachers of secularism .I just wanted to tell them don't teach secularism .we all know .we are concerned with secularism in third world country where these type of issue can be exploited.When there was no extereme religious demands and state wasn't interfering other religion why should we make this another topic to divide people?

Everything aside, why is it that you people think secularism is bad for nepal again ? I still fail to grasp the logic of how something as progressive as secularism can hurt any society ?

As ImI keeps stressing,"why do we need to declare nepal a secular state, when there was complete harmony under a Hindu nation". now, thats no basis to stop any progressive and modern thoughts. Freedom, justice and equality are the foundation of a democratic society. If a Muslim decides to consume beef that is against the law, and if a Hindu does pork, that is all right. Where is the equality and justice in it ? If you say that it is restricted under the law of the state, wouldn't that be a contradidction to your statement that all religion were allowed freedom under a Hindu state ? Above all we need to cut down on the state holidays, which almost all of them falls under Hindu festivals. We Nepalese work onlyhalf the year, the rest is taken up by holidays, how would the nation progress under such a slacky work ethics ? Well, there are a lot of other points, but I will wait for a reply from other enlightened being in Sajha who still thinks one religion should be treated above other.

BTW, did we have a referendum when the SPA decided to bring down Monarcy? Maybe majority would have voted for him ?? what say you NepaliCNN & ImI

I have a feeling that if it had been early 19th century you guys would have been arguing against the abolishment of the Sati tradition. Hell, if you were christians in the 18th century you would have taken part in witch burning, if you were there during the Babri Masjid controversy, you would have climbed the wall first to bring down the Masjid, if you were an Iraqi you would have been the guy shouting"Allah O Akbar" while gunning down the 11 innocent Nepalese. For people whose sentiment runs so hand in hand with their religion, extremism is never far. for you who have vigorously been writing against the secularism move, I say Maoist has atleast an idealogy thats one step ahead then you. Your ability to write here is not a pivilage but your right, hence the same right should be given in respect to religion to all people irrespective of caste, religion or race. When a government favors particular group over other thats discrimination if you are in America, shouldn't it be same in Nepal ?

imi, your argument goes like this:

there was not much religious violence under Saddam Hussein. at least we didn't hear about the Sunnis and Shiites fighting it out. Now that Saddam Hussein is gone, people are exploiting religious sentiments. sectarian violence is on the rise in Iraq. Why not reinstate Saddam Hussein to bring peace?

What kind of fuzzy logic is this? And I am afraid this is the voodoo logic being espoused by the many supporters of "Hindu State" on this sajha thread!

Replace "Saddam Hussein" by "Hindu state" in the context of now Secular Nepal, and we know, Imi, your argument holds no water.

Secularism per se doesn't create violence; Hindu fundamentalism does, but Hindu fundamentalists want to blame it all on secularism. Secularism's being made a punching bag here. Their argument that "Hindu state" will avert religious violence is fallacious. Hell, it sure as hell was not able to avert Mr. Narayan Pokharel's murder allegedly at the hands of Hindu fundamentalists.

Secularism doesn't pose any threats to Hinduism. It is not going to uproot Hinduism. Well, it will certainly put Hinduism on an equal footing with other religions. This is good. But Hindu fundamentalists don't want a level playing field, which goes onto show that they are really religious bigots and supremacists!

The problem with the many Hindu fundamentalists is that even while they argue that under Hindu Nepal, there had been religiuos harmony(which is, of course, all hogwash) they are keen to undermine the good work of Christian missionaries. Just read about their Christian bashing in other threads of Sajha. They are being two-tongued here - while championing "Hindu state" as fostering religiuos harmony, they are being intolerant of Christian missionaries.

I'm afraid the Nepali Hindus are playing right into the hands of the India-based Hindu fundamentalist orgs and parties (who think Nepal is their "pewa") and their stooges (eg Bharat Keshari Simha, Sachhit Shumsher Rana, and the palace wallahs).

राजारानीको संरक्षकत्व हटाइनुपर्ने



कास


काठमाडौं, जेठ १५ - पशुपतिको भेटी र बहुमूल्य वस्तु व्यवस्थापन समस्या हल गर्न तत्काल दरबारको संरक्षकत्व र अध्यक्षता हटाइनुपर्ने कर्मचारीले माग गरेका छन् । राजदरबारको प्रत्यक्ष निगरानीमा रहेको पशुपति क्षेत्र विकास कोषले मन्दिरमा चढाइने नगद र बहुमूल्य वस्तुलगायतका आम्दानी पारदर्शी र व्यवस्थित गर्नमा वर्षौंदेखि आलटाल हुँदै आएको छ ।
पशुपतिनाथ देशकै सबैभन्दा बढी आम्दानी हुने धार्मिकस्थल मानिन्छ । कोषले प्रत्येक वर्ष बालाचतुर्दशीको भोलिपल्ट मन्दिरको वाषिर्क आम्दानीका नाममा नाममात्रैको रकम सार्वजनिक गर्दै आएको छ । भक्तजनले चढाएको नगद जम्मा गरी सुन किन्ने परम्परा छ । सुन मूल ढुकुटीमा राख्ने गरिन्छ । मूल ढुकुटीलगायत सबै ढुकुटीमा रहेका सुन, चाँदी र बहुमूल्य वस्तुको अवस्था र मात्रासमेत सार्वजनिक गरिएको छैन । पूजाआजावापत संकलन हुने रकमसमेत कोषमा जम्मा हुँदैन ।

वैशाख २४ गतेको सरकारी निर्णयबाट पदमुक्त भएका सदस्य-सचिव वसन्त चौधरीले आम्दानी व्यवस्थित गर्न भट्ट, भण्डारी र विसेटहरूलाई तलबको व्यवस्था गर्ने प्रतिबद्घता पटक-पटक व्यक्त गरेका थिए । तर वर्षौं बिते पनि कार्यान्वयन गरेनन् ।

'उनी पदमा कसरी टिकिरहने भन्ने ध्याउन्नमा मात्र लागे', पशुपतिनाथका नियमित दर्शनार्थी श्याम नेपालले भने- 'दरबारको संरक्षण रहेसम्म मन्दिरको आम्दानी व्यवस्थित हुने देखिँदैन ।'उनले कोषलाई सरकार मातहतको निकाय अन्तर्गत नराखुन्जेल मन्दिरको आम्दानी व्यवस्थित नहुने बताए । कोषको संरक्षक र अध्यक्षमा क्रमशः राजा र रानी छन् ।

शाही घोषणबाट ०४३ पुस १ गते स्थापना भएको कोषले मन्दिरको आम्दानी पारदर्शी र व्यवस्थित गर्न ल्याउने भनेको कोष व्यवस्था नियमावली एक दशक बितिसक्दा पनि बन्न सकेको छैन । कोषका कर्मचारी र नागरिक समाज आम्दानी पारदर्शी र व्यवस्थित गर्नुपर्ने मागसहित ०४७ देखि नै आन्दोलित छन् । त्यस यता उनीहरूले पटकपटक अनशनलगायतका विरोध कार्यक्रम गरिसकेका छन् ।

कोषका एक कर्मचारीले कोषलाई राजदरबारको प्रत्यक्ष निगरानी र निर्देशनबाट तत्काल हटाएर संसद् मातहतमा ल्याउनुपर्ने माग गर्दै भने- 'पशुपति मन्दिरको चौतर्फी सुधार र विकासका लागि प्रतिनिधिसभाले सरकारलाई तत्काल निर्देशन दिनुपर्छ । होइन भने यो समस्या यथावत् रहन्छ ।'

कर्मचारीले मन्दिरमा हुने नित्य पूजा र भक्तजनबाट गरिने फर्मायसी पूजा र भेटीघाटीलगायत सबै प्रकारका जिन्सी आम्दानीलाई पारदर्शी बनाई संस्थागत रूपमा बाँधेर व्यवस्थित गर्नुपर्ने माग राखेका छन् । उनीहरूले उक्त रकम मन्दिरको चौतर्फी विकास र सुधारमा खर्च गर्नुपर्ने बताएका छन् ।

भट्टहरूको अग्रसरतामा मन्दिरमा झन्डै १३ प्रकारका पूजा हुन्छन् । ती पूजा १ सय १ देखि ११ लाख रुपैयाँसम्मका छन् जसको बढीमा ११ प्रतिशत रकममात्रै कोषको ढुकुटीमा जम्मा हुन्छ । बाँकी रकम मूल भट्टको नेतृत्वमा चार भट्टले बाँडिचुँडी लिन्छन् । यस्ता पूजा दैनिक सरदर ६ वटासम्म हुन्छन् । एघार प्रतिशत कोषमा जम्मा गर्ने नियम ०५५ वैशाखदेखि मात्रै लागू भएको हो । यसअघि सबै आम्दानी भट्ट र भण्डारीहरूले आपसी सहमतिमा बाँडेर लिन्थे ।

http://kantipuronline.com/kolnepalinews.php?&nid=75099

Whatever King Midas touched turned to gold.

Whatever the palace touches turns to "goo".

No wonder Pashupati Nath temple has become a posterboy of greed, chakribad, fraud
and mismanagement.

We must pressure the government to force the palace to pull out its "sticky fingers" from every pie in the land - from Pashupati Nath to KMTNC to royalized National Parks of Nepal and countless other NGOs that serve as breeding grounds of royalists or employment agencies for royalist sycophants or even palacewallahs!!!

Karmapa - you are a gurumappa.

JUST cut the carp Kamapa, u are hindu hater thats it.
my agument holds water or not we will see when people drown in water 21 people or 2100 time will show.

Karmapa, Mahatma Gandhi was a devoted (to a fault almost) follower of Gita and not Budhism per se!!

Few things:

1) Pahadi as "Ha" sound in it
2) "goo" as in S$!T has "n" sound in it...

People, as you are wrong about the 2 items I mentioned above, you are alos wrong about your other ideas. I am all for democracy - "Freedom, justice and equality are the foundation of a democratic society." However, when will we realize that that is not what we achieved in the recent "aandolan" - though it served to "kick" the royals out of power --- this is a good thing. But we have not achieved a TRUE democracy. I am all for removing Hindu Kingdom label from Nepal but you have to do a cost benefit analysis... believe it or not, that TAG brought us a lot of recognition around the world and a lot of TOURIST dollars. With that said, that is not the only thing I am worried about ...

WE WILL NOT HAVE DEMOCRACY IN NEPAL UNTILL THE MAOIST ARE OBLITERATED FROM THE FACE OF THE EARTH.

Those of you who support the Maoist are nothing but an autocratic minded wannabe royals who abhor democracy and free society. You want to GIVE me things rather than allowing me to EARN those things. Those, like some of the poster here who are satisfied with taking what's given to them and simile away at the fact that they have something now -- are not for democracy!!! Wakeup and stop fooling yourselves.

Nepal will not have FULL democracy with " Freedom, justice and equality" where hundreds of thousands of people did and the Maoist will be more than willing to oblige!!!

Chettri and Bahuns against true Nepali Democracy.......

Dear Educated (mostly western based I believe),

Well, being Nepali, it is not the time to keep on discussing same old crap about Hinduism, Caste system, King, Racism, Discrimination etc. etc. all the time which leads us nowhere and gaining nothing.

It is good that finally we almost got rid of King at least for now, it is beginning of new Era for each and every Nepalis from all the nook and corners and all races and tribes to be true diginified Nepali. Religion and custom is for individuals and their own family and community to keep in social harmony. Being Secular Nepal is the most suited at this juncture of Nepal, the far and foremost requirment is the NEED OF INCLUSIVE DEMOCRATIC SYSTEM where all could take part and have a saying in decision making for the benefit to alll being Nepali first.

Being Hindu, Buddhists, Christian, Muslim or whatever other religion one choose to follow it is matter of personel perception, we should respect that individualism. MAKE SYSTEM CREATE THE ENVIRNMENT FOR AND WORK HARD, GENERATE PROPER TAX SYSTEM TO SUSTAIN ECONOMY SOTHAT EVERYBODY HAS THE FAIR CHANCE OF SURVIVAL AND UPLIFTMENT AND DEVELOPMENT OF INDIVIDUAL, SOCIETY AND NEPAL AS WHOLE.

We should from now on distance the State with Religion and first check the mal practices, corruption of the whole Government System through new Constitutional Assembly to check each and every tyrant, undemocratic, criminal elements including all political parties now specially Security Aparatus and Maobadis.

Regarding the moving Capital and establish elsewhere it will not be so easy to do but I agree in this respect. Once should gradually make proper INFRASTRUCTURES in phase wise in all other GEOGRAPHICAL SECTORS specially MID WEST AND WESTERN PART OF NEPAL. Then gradually in phase we should indeed shift the Capital or Administrative Centre for experiment or decentralise the power into Federal Government representing in respective region and development sectors looking into local and regional requirements. Kathmandu is too crowded, polluted and too elite power centric, we need to change this SECENARIO ONCE AND FOR ALL. But it will not be as easy as some friends want to see without proper developmental assessement and build up.

Perharps English should be made the lingua franca as in India for all Government and judicial and administrative purpose in PHASE and uplift NATIVE AND REGIONAL LANGUAGES PRIORITY so that there won't be any domination of few percentage of people whos mother tongue HAPPENS TO BE KHAS NEPALI and will AUTOMATICALLY CREATE SENSE of belongingness as well as competence.

Well rest I believe FRIENDS know better to add further necessary steps which will benefit all FIRST AS NEPALI.

JAI NEPAL AND NEPALI

Dear Educated (mostly western based I believe),

Well, being Nepali, it is not the time to keep on discussing same old crap about Hinduism, Caste system, King, Racism, Discrimination etc. etc. all the time which leads us nowhere and gaining nothing.

It is good that finally we almost got rid of King at least for now, it is beginning of new Era for each and every Nepalis from all the nook and corners and all races and tribes to be true diginified Nepali. Religion and custom is for individuals and their own family and community to keep in social harmony. Being Secular Nepal is the most suited at this juncture of Nepal, the far and foremost requirment is the NEED OF INCLUSIVE DEMOCRATIC SYSTEM where all could take part and have a saying in decision making for the benefit to alll being Nepali first.

Being Hindu, Buddhists, Christian, Muslim or whatever other religion one choose to follow it is matter of personel perception, we should respect that individualism. MAKE SYSTEM CREATE THE ENVIRNMENT FOR AND WORK HARD, GENERATE PROPER TAX SYSTEM TO SUSTAIN ECONOMY SOTHAT EVERYBODY HAS THE FAIR CHANCE OF SURVIVAL AND UPLIFTMENT AND DEVELOPMENT OF INDIVIDUAL, SOCIETY AND NEPAL AS WHOLE.

We should from now on distance the State with Religion and first check the mal practices, corruption of the whole Government System through new Constitutional Assembly to check each and every tyrant, undemocratic, criminal elements including all political parties now specially Security Aparatus and Maobadis.

Regarding the moving Capital and establish elsewhere it will not be so easy to do but I agree in this respect. Once should gradually make proper INFRASTRUCTURES in phase wise in all other GEOGRAPHICAL SECTORS specially MID WEST AND WESTERN PART OF NEPAL. Then gradually in phase we should indeed shift the Capital or Administrative Centre for experiment or decentralise the power into Federal Government representing in respective region and development sectors looking into local and regional requirements. Kathmandu is too crowded, polluted and too elite power centric, we need to change this SECENARIO ONCE AND FOR ALL. But it will not be as easy as some friends want to see without proper developmental assessement and build up.

Perharps English should be made the lingua franca as in India for all Government and judicial and administrative purpose in PHASE and uplift NATIVE AND REGIONAL LANGUAGES PRIORITY so that there won't be any domination of few percentage of people whos mother tongue HAPPENS TO BE KHAS NEPALI and will AUTOMATICALLY CREATE SENSE of belongingness as well as competence.

Well rest I believe FRIENDS know better to add further necessary steps which will benefit all FIRST AS NEPALI.

JAI NEPAL AND NEPALI