" Nepal Hindus in secular protest "

By Charles Haviland , BBC News

Thousands of people in southern Nepal have been protesting against a parliamentary decision to declare Nepal a secular, rather than a Hindu kingdom.
The mainly Hindu protestors in the southern town of Birgunj have declared a general strike in their area.

Eyewitnesses in Birgunj say the town has been closed down by an alliance of local Hindu groups, with some 6,000 marching in protest.

The country has been officially a Hindu kingdom for the last 40 years.

Divided opinions

With the symbolism associated with Hinduism, people are waving saffron-coloured flags, wielding tridents and shouting the name of the popular deity Ram.

They have also burned copies of a newspaper they accuse of favouring secularism.

Birgunj lies on the Indian border and local journalists say the protests have taken on the flavour of Hindu nationalist rallies more common in India.

Nepal is at least 80% Hindu. It has a tradition of religious tolerance and mixing, but also strong discrimination along caste lines.

Last week's declaration that it be secular is dividing opinion.

Organisations representing indigenous ethnic groups, many of whom are Buddhist, have welcomed it, so has a body speaking for the tiny Christian minority.

But some Hindu groups have expressed outrage, while others have questioned why change is necessary, given the country's general lack of inter-communal violence.

In a separate development, doctors across Nepal have gone on strike, protesting at the severe vandalising of two hospitals in different parts of the country.

In each case, large crowds alleged that doctors negligence had caused the deaths of patients.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/south_asia/5015456.stm

WHY?

WHY PROTEST FOR DEMOCRACY?

The protests in Birgunj were "engineered" by the disenchanted royalists with ties to the India-based fundamentalist organisations and parties!!!

We all know why Mahatma Gandhi (champion of "Secular India"), whose f non-violent movement against the British Raj had been inspired by the teachings of Lord Buddha, was assassinated by Nathuram Godse, a Hindu fanatic?

Nathuram Godses are starting to rear their ugly heads in the border towns of Nepal. The disechanted royalists in cahoots with India-based fundamentalist Hindu orgs and parties (such as VHP, BJP, Shiva Senea, Rastriya Swayam Shevak, etc.) are "engineering" protests in border towns to pressure the government to make Nepal a 'Hindu state". The royalists who were initially involved (but have since "disappeared" from these protests after being exposed by the local papers) have a hidden agenda: to 'rescue' their fallen false god king on the strength of the rising wave of Hindu fundamentalism.

It would be interesting to see if the Pahariya Hindus will follow suit. But certainly the royalists and Hindu fundamentalists will try to ‘influence’ the Pahariya Hindus. We must not underestimate the might of the Pahariya Hindus, and their role in overthrowing the false god king of Nepal.

My feeling is that in Nepal we have two diametrically opposed strains running through its Hindu groups & Hindus, broadly speaking:

1) the fundamentalist groups (eg. Bharat Keshari Simha's org) which are remote controlled by India-based fundamentalist Hindu orgs and parties in cahoots with the royalists. They have deep roots in border towns, and also in the capital. They are a minority. They are hurt by the fall of their god king. India-based groups are losing control over Nepal.

2) the moderate groups that are by and large made up of Pahariya Hindus. They make up the majority of Hindus of Nepal. They are by and large peaceful and tolerant. They don't lament the fall of the false god king. I would tend to put the deceased Mr. Narayan Pokhrel in category owing to his moderate and reform-minded approach. Although Mr. Narayan’s death has been blamed on the Maoist rebels (which is very typical of King Gyanendra’s past sarkar) , there are reasons to believe that Mr. Pokhrel may have been taken out by Hindu fundamentalist orgs.

As long as the Pahariya Hindus do not give in to the influence/pressure of the Hindu fundamentalist groups in border towns, the latter's protests will taper off in no time.

Only the moderate and reform-minded Pahariya Hindus can save Hinduism from the corrupting hands of the India-based fundamentalist Hindu orgs & parties and their stooges in Nepal.

KARMAPA,

GANDHI IS MODERN DAY INDIA IS NOT LIKED FOR HIS DEEDS. I HAVE MET SO MANY NEW GENERATION INDIANS WHO HATE HIM. They say they would have a better India of someone like Subhash Chandra Bose was their leader in place of Gandhi and they are ok with the fact that Gandhi was assasinated and some even think it should have been earlier. You must have read Gandhi's autobio where he writes of sleeping naked with women and yet having the self restraint of not touching them... hahhaha

It's modern day world and please do not follow such suckers ! At least do not quote them ... I feel it is due to Gandhi that India is so much divided in terms of religion. They ask votes in terms of religion. Had India been a Hindu country it would not be the situation now. And, now the religious fundamentalism has raised its ugly head in Nepal too. Sad isn't it?

In Gandhi's autobiography he mentions Buddha's name 3 times - twice to support his views on being vegetarian and third in discussion about self restraint. Bringing Buddha's name to support Gandhi's secular India is totally out of context.

Nepalese leaders have yet to understand the meaning of "democracy" and the "rule of people". I would support a secular Nepal if the majority of Nepalese want that - why cant we have a referendum on this issue before Girija, Makune force it onto us while they are under Prachanda's Guns?

The timing of the declaration is no doubt a questionable act and it may bring more violence for a longer time. As we are headed towards a more immature discussion on this topic at the wrong time, I dont see why it was declared in a haste. Does this mean the Maoists can now kill villagers cows in front of them?

If people want to follow Buddha's path they should first learn to act against animal cruelty - Hinduism can not be uprooted no matter what but the way Hindus go about doing things like sacrificing animals to please god can definitely be changed.

I am surprised at the way some people are so fast to blame others for their acts without facts while they themselves can not provide any facts to support their statements - here is an example of what karmapa had to say but I am sure he can not provide any convincing facts to support his reasons:
"Although Mr. Narayan’s death has been blamed on the Maoist rebels (which is very typical of King Gyanendra’s past sarkar) , there are reasons to believe that Mr. Pokhrel may have been taken out by Hindu fundamentalist orgs. "

Finally a question- what do you say when someone posts the same message several times under different threads ? does that sound like a propoganda?

A referendum on secular nepal ? I do not know how prepared are the majority of the people. They can be easily manipulated. Take in the case of my district in Sindhupalchok. Pashupati Shumsher Rana has been ruling over the area for 30 continious years. In the name of developement, he has not even moved a stone. There is no proper water supply, health post or school in the area. The reason why he has succeded to do so for all these years is because of illiteracy in the area. He realised that uneducated people would be the best to manipulate, and hence never put in any work on developing the education standard in the district. Every election year, only election year, he would visit the district with his daughter and distribute money and organise feast in villages. The people being illiterate, and unaware of his plan would vote for him because of the money he spent on them. In the same way, if VHP and other organisation go around spreading lies and rumors that if Nepal is declared a secular kingdom, muslims and christians will start slaughtering cows all over the country, christinaty will rule the country and Hindus will no longer be able to practise their religion freely like they use to, chances are they will decide on keeping it a Hindu kingdom. Now, thsi is not because they deeply it should be that way , but because of the fear of the uncertain. Certain decision regarding developement and modernasition has to be taken regardless of the procedure for the greater good of the country.

Following your same logic, what makes you think that the Constituent Assembly will work if referendum on this issue can not? Wouldn't the same leaders be elected to the Constituent Assembly as well? How will this be different than the parliament that can change constitution as it is doing now?

Let me tell you my answer - Maoists will force the people to vote under their gun point and if they believe they can't then there wont be constituent assembly election, resulting in more chaos. By that time the Maoists will already have dismantled all the organizations that could fight against them - Army, SPA, Parliament, Hindus, etc. Note that they have already said they dont want the local bodies to be reinstated, and they want parliament to be dissolved as soon as possible, makes any sense?

Nepali CNN, nobody said anything about uprooting Hinduism. It is about according equal status to all religions, no matter how small, in the eye of the law or state! I don't call posting the same message in different similar threads "propaganda". If people want to keep creating different threads to discuss the same topic (when one would have sufficed) I tailor my message slightly for these threads.

Do not worry, nothing will happen to Hinduism under "Secular Nepal". It will not get uprooted. If it does, then that probably means it has nothing to offer. So it might as well get crowded out by 'competition'. I, for one, think a distinctively Nepali kind of Hinduism will get much needed oxygen, since Hindu fundamentalism has been slowly choking it to death, so to speak!

Gandhi was taken out by a Hindu fanatic - not because he practiced self-restraint or went vegetarian. Why was he taken out? No point for guessing correctly. You see the parallel between Gandhi and Mr. Narayan Pokhrel? Hindu fundamentalism is a bigger threat to Hinduism than secularism! See what I mean? And all this happened not under "Secularism" but under "Hindu Nepal".

Nepali CNN, I am not here to provide facts. I'm not in a court. And besides, you are not a judge, and I don't have to be nice to you. Mr. Pokharel was allegedly taken out by Bharat Keshar Simha's henchmen. Why don't you look into it - you'll be all the better educated for it. You want facts? Why don't you call on your government to investigate this murder case!

----

Kalp you have a pretty dim opinion of Gandhi. Why do you call Gandhi, who galvanised Indians to kick out the British colonizers, a sucker - why you hate him so much dude? It's not like Gandhi slept naked with your sisters to test his self restraint - of course not! No point getting so riled up about my reference to Gandhi! Man you the way you refer to Gandhi as if Gandhi were an untouchable. You know what I mean? I can see right through your mask!

---------------------

All I have heard from people arguing for "Hindu state" is that it will avert religious violence or rise of BJP and all that crap! "Hindu state" will not avert religious violence - and didn't certainly avert the murder of Mr. Naryan Pokhrel. Hindu fundamentalism has already taken roots in Nepal because the country's been a "Hindu state" for so long.

Under Secularism, moderate and reform-minded Hindus will gain lots of grounds they have ceded to the Hindu fundamentalists, who are actually religious bigots and supremacists.

I am afraid Kalpi, and Nepali CNN are playing right into the hands of the India-based fundamentali Hindu orgs and their stooges in Nepal.

The protests in Birgunj were orchastrated by a few royalists who have since been exposed by the local papers!!!

Karmapa or Gurumappa jee

Your reasonings are irrational. And, do not write something in an insulting way. About, Gandhi - the Indians say that he used to sleep naked with women of his daughters/ grand child's age and used to talk of self restrain. I have not read his autobiography though. It is not something unheard of about Gandhi.

Secularism is urgently needed where religious leaders dictate legislative agenda. In Nepal there was no interference of temple on the State

The word 'secularism' all of a sudden has become a hallowed and sacred word in Nepal's political parlance. It has become the most popular product for aggressive political marketing in Nepal. However, amidst the euphoria of newly gained freedom the possible ramifications of going secular from a Hindu state have not been well debated.

The very concept of secularism arose from an urgent need to put an end the tyranny and interference of the Church in the state affairs. It was based on the Christian theological concept that the material world is separate from the spiritual world and correspondingly the state should have sole jurisdiction over one and the Church over the other. In the case of Nepal we have never had religious control, i.e., legislations, such as in Saudi Arabia and Iran or as in Europe for the last 1,500 years.

Secularism in India has failed to stem the rising tide of intolerance in recent years. While Hindu volunteers demolished the controversial Babri mosque and a huge crowd of more than hundred thousand frenzied Hindu fanatics chanted slogans and danced, the Congress party which considers itself a secular party and which was in power then did nothing, but watched helplessly the constitutional rights of minorities being crushed mercilessly. A religious site of Muslims that are a minority in India was reduced to debris by the Hindu fanatics. The ugly face of political fraud in the name of secularism have become evident in numerous occasions in India: ranging from Bhagalpur massacre to Babri Masjid demolition. Indian secularism was unable to stop the murderous carnage in Gujarat.

The declaration of secular state may prove to be bane than boon for Nepali minorities. It may serve as a much needed inertia for the religious Hindu fanatics and may give birth to less tolerant Hindu outfit such as Shiv Sena and Bajrang Dal in India. If that happens, it will make religious minorities vulnerable than ever. If secularism is for political gains rather than preserving religious harmony, securing peace, and economic prosperity of minorities, SPAM (seven party alliance plus Maoists) has played a big fraud on the nation in general and on minorities in particular. Providing a variety of silly sops to minorities is not enough to empower them.

The author is doctoral candidate of Environmental Science and Public Policy at George Mason University, Virginia. Please send your comments to feedback@mos.com.np or hbdulal@gmail.com

The above article is by Hari Bansha Dulal and the full text of it is in nepalnews.

It's no surprise to hear that when someone tries to read the facts and base their opinion on facts - they charge us as falling into the opposing views like Hindu fundamentalists and so on. People are so fast to bring Gandhi's name to support their views but when I think of Secular Nepal under the threat of Maoists - Mao's Secular Communism comes to my mind. Maybe my mind is a little slow here, huh? Mao's Secular communism is considered as the greatest murderer of all times with more than 60 million murders.

As I have said in other posts that I would prefer secular Nepal but not under the threat of Maoists. Declaring secular Nepal at this time has definitely swayed some of the Hindu's to support the fundamentalists but who would we blame for this?

Talking about local papers supporting one's view - isnt that a joke? You must be talking about Kantipur Online I guess. Sorry, I stopped reading Kantipur online when they interviewed the so called Millionair of Nepal living in Spain or somewhere...

The GUY in nepalnews exactly reflected my ideas.That is the thing i was pointing out all the time.There are people in sajah who are good teachers of secularism .I just wanted to tell them don't teach secularism .we all know .we are concerned with secularism in third world country where these type of issue can be exploited.When there was no extereme religious demands and state wasn't interfering other religion why should we make this another topic to divide people?

Everything aside, why is it that you people think secularism is bad for nepal again ? I still fail to grasp the logic of how something as progressive as secularism can hurt any society ?

As ImI keeps stressing,"why do we need to declare nepal a secular state, when there was complete harmony under a Hindu nation". now, thats no basis to stop any progressive and modern thoughts. Freedom, justice and equality are the foundation of a democratic society. If a Muslim decides to consume beef that is against the law, and if a Hindu does pork, that is all right. Where is the equality and justice in it ? If you say that it is restricted under the law of the state, wouldn't that be a contradidction to your statement that all religion were allowed freedom under a Hindu state ? Above all we need to cut down on the state holidays, which almost all of them falls under Hindu festivals. We Nepalese work onlyhalf the year, the rest is taken up by holidays, how would the nation progress under such a slacky work ethics ? Well, there are a lot of other points, but I will wait for a reply from other enlightened being in Sajha who still thinks one religion should be treated above other.

BTW, did we have a referendum when the SPA decided to bring down Monarcy? Maybe majority would have voted for him ?? what say you NepaliCNN & ImI

I have a feeling that if it had been early 19th century you guys would have been arguing against the abolishment of the Sati tradition. Hell, if you were christians in the 18th century you would have taken part in witch burning, if you were there during the Babri Masjid controversy, you would have climbed the wall first to bring down the Masjid, if you were an Iraqi you would have been the guy shouting"Allah O Akbar" while gunning down the 11 innocent Nepalese. For people whose sentiment runs so hand in hand with their religion, extremism is never far. for you who have vigorously been writing against the secularism move, I say Maoist has atleast an idealogy thats one step ahead then you. Your ability to write here is not a pivilage but your right, hence the same right should be given in respect to religion to all people irrespective of caste, religion or race. When a government favors particular group over other thats discrimination if you are in America, shouldn't it be same in Nepal ?

imi, your argument goes like this:

there was not much religious violence under Saddam Hussein. at least we didn't hear about the Sunnis and Shiites fighting it out. Now that Saddam Hussein is gone, people are exploiting religious sentiments. sectarian violence is on the rise in Iraq. Why not reinstate Saddam Hussein to bring peace?

What kind of fuzzy logic is this? And I am afraid this is the voodoo logic being espoused by the many supporters of "Hindu State" on this sajha thread!

Replace "Saddam Hussein" by "Hindu state" in the context of now Secular Nepal, and we know, Imi, your argument holds no water.

Secularism per se doesn't create violence; Hindu fundamentalism does, but Hindu fundamentalists want to blame it all on secularism. Secularism's being made a punching bag here. Their argument that "Hindu state" will avert religious violence is fallacious. Hell, it sure as hell was not able to avert Mr. Narayan Pokharel's murder allegedly at the hands of Hindu fundamentalists.

Secularism doesn't pose any threats to Hinduism. It is not going to uproot Hinduism. Well, it will certainly put Hinduism on an equal footing with other religions. This is good. But Hindu fundamentalists don't want a level playing field, which goes onto show that they are really religious bigots and supremacists!

The problem with the many Hindu fundamentalists is that even while they argue that under Hindu Nepal, there had been religiuos harmony(which is, of course, all hogwash) they are keen to undermine the good work of Christian missionaries. Just read about their Christian bashing in other threads of Sajha. They are being two-tongued here - while championing "Hindu state" as fostering religiuos harmony, they are being intolerant of Christian missionaries.

I'm afraid the Nepali Hindus are playing right into the hands of the India-based Hindu fundamentalist orgs and parties (who think Nepal is their "pewa") and their stooges (eg Bharat Keshari Simha, Sachhit Shumsher Rana, and the palace wallahs).

राजारानीको संरक्षकत्व हटाइनुपर्ने



कास


काठमाडौं, जेठ १५ - पशुपतिको भेटी र बहुमूल्य वस्तु व्यवस्थापन समस्या हल गर्न तत्काल दरबारको संरक्षकत्व र अध्यक्षता हटाइनुपर्ने कर्मचारीले माग गरेका छन् । राजदरबारको प्रत्यक्ष निगरानीमा रहेको पशुपति क्षेत्र विकास कोषले मन्दिरमा चढाइने नगद र बहुमूल्य वस्तुलगायतका आम्दानी पारदर्शी र व्यवस्थित गर्नमा वर्षौंदेखि आलटाल हुँदै आएको छ ।
पशुपतिनाथ देशकै सबैभन्दा बढी आम्दानी हुने धार्मिकस्थल मानिन्छ । कोषले प्रत्येक वर्ष बालाचतुर्दशीको भोलिपल्ट मन्दिरको वाषिर्क आम्दानीका नाममा नाममात्रैको रकम सार्वजनिक गर्दै आएको छ । भक्तजनले चढाएको नगद जम्मा गरी सुन किन्ने परम्परा छ । सुन मूल ढुकुटीमा राख्ने गरिन्छ । मूल ढुकुटीलगायत सबै ढुकुटीमा रहेका सुन, चाँदी र बहुमूल्य वस्तुको अवस्था र मात्रासमेत सार्वजनिक गरिएको छैन । पूजाआजावापत संकलन हुने रकमसमेत कोषमा जम्मा हुँदैन ।

वैशाख २४ गतेको सरकारी निर्णयबाट पदमुक्त भएका सदस्य-सचिव वसन्त चौधरीले आम्दानी व्यवस्थित गर्न भट्ट, भण्डारी र विसेटहरूलाई तलबको व्यवस्था गर्ने प्रतिबद्घता पटक-पटक व्यक्त गरेका थिए । तर वर्षौं बिते पनि कार्यान्वयन गरेनन् ।

'उनी पदमा कसरी टिकिरहने भन्ने ध्याउन्नमा मात्र लागे', पशुपतिनाथका नियमित दर्शनार्थी श्याम नेपालले भने- 'दरबारको संरक्षण रहेसम्म मन्दिरको आम्दानी व्यवस्थित हुने देखिँदैन ।'उनले कोषलाई सरकार मातहतको निकाय अन्तर्गत नराखुन्जेल मन्दिरको आम्दानी व्यवस्थित नहुने बताए । कोषको संरक्षक र अध्यक्षमा क्रमशः राजा र रानी छन् ।

शाही घोषणबाट ०४३ पुस १ गते स्थापना भएको कोषले मन्दिरको आम्दानी पारदर्शी र व्यवस्थित गर्न ल्याउने भनेको कोष व्यवस्था नियमावली एक दशक बितिसक्दा पनि बन्न सकेको छैन । कोषका कर्मचारी र नागरिक समाज आम्दानी पारदर्शी र व्यवस्थित गर्नुपर्ने मागसहित ०४७ देखि नै आन्दोलित छन् । त्यस यता उनीहरूले पटकपटक अनशनलगायतका विरोध कार्यक्रम गरिसकेका छन् ।

कोषका एक कर्मचारीले कोषलाई राजदरबारको प्रत्यक्ष निगरानी र निर्देशनबाट तत्काल हटाएर संसद् मातहतमा ल्याउनुपर्ने माग गर्दै भने- 'पशुपति मन्दिरको चौतर्फी सुधार र विकासका लागि प्रतिनिधिसभाले सरकारलाई तत्काल निर्देशन दिनुपर्छ । होइन भने यो समस्या यथावत् रहन्छ ।'

कर्मचारीले मन्दिरमा हुने नित्य पूजा र भक्तजनबाट गरिने फर्मायसी पूजा र भेटीघाटीलगायत सबै प्रकारका जिन्सी आम्दानीलाई पारदर्शी बनाई संस्थागत रूपमा बाँधेर व्यवस्थित गर्नुपर्ने माग राखेका छन् । उनीहरूले उक्त रकम मन्दिरको चौतर्फी विकास र सुधारमा खर्च गर्नुपर्ने बताएका छन् ।

भट्टहरूको अग्रसरतामा मन्दिरमा झन्डै १३ प्रकारका पूजा हुन्छन् । ती पूजा १ सय १ देखि ११ लाख रुपैयाँसम्मका छन् जसको बढीमा ११ प्रतिशत रकममात्रै कोषको ढुकुटीमा जम्मा हुन्छ । बाँकी रकम मूल भट्टको नेतृत्वमा चार भट्टले बाँडिचुँडी लिन्छन् । यस्ता पूजा दैनिक सरदर ६ वटासम्म हुन्छन् । एघार प्रतिशत कोषमा जम्मा गर्ने नियम ०५५ वैशाखदेखि मात्रै लागू भएको हो । यसअघि सबै आम्दानी भट्ट र भण्डारीहरूले आपसी सहमतिमा बाँडेर लिन्थे ।

http://kantipuronline.com/kolnepalinews.php?&nid=75099