[Show all top banners]

blue_sapphire
Replies to this thread:

More by blue_sapphire
What people are reading
Subscribers
:: Subscribe
Back to: Kurakani General Refresh page to view new replies
 Against the allegations about Sai Baba
[VIEWED 5095 TIMES]
SAVE! for ease of future access.
Posted on 10-30-06 5:11 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
Login in to Rate this Post:     0       ?    
 

This is a letter from Howard Murphet, the writer of "Sai Baba- Man of Miracles"

Dear XXXXXX,

I felt through your well-expressed letter that you were at the crossroads and not sure which way to go and so it was, that I felt compelled to help you if I could.


My good friends or some of them in the Sai movement have expressed the opinion that the present time and what is taking place really is the dividing of the ways, "the sifting out of the chaff from the grain', or what the Bible might call the dividing of the sheep from the goats. However way we see it, is a difficult time for some people, especially for the fairly new comers among the following of Sai Baba.


You say you have read some of my books so you know perhaps that I am probably the first from the Western world to come to Sathya Sai Baba as a Western skeptic and stay with Him or near Him for some six years in India in order to solve the problem of His true Identity and why He was here in the world. After returning to the west I have been back many times, pulled by the strong magnet of the Divine Love and fascination of One I decided was an Avatar of God. He taught me what an Avatar is. His relationship to ordinary human beings in the world and how His Purpose was to lead those who are ready, to their own inner Guru or the God within. I did not immediately except Him as an Avatar, but after He taught me in a humble manner what an Avatar is and how we are all Avatars, descendants from God without being aware of it. As I stayed on I became more and more certain that He was indeed an Avatar. This is not based on the fact that He materialises things. I know that there are others in India who have the siddhis for materialisation. Some of them are masters on the right hand path, others on the left hand path or the black magicians. In most cases they have trained servants in the astral realm who carry things for them as they desire. I mean material objects such as trinkets, food and so on. So, you might say the fact that Swami materialises things is really no proof that He is an Avatar of God.


He goes much further than that and He does what only one bearing the Christ-consciousness or the Divine-consciousness on earth can do and I have witnessed many of these phenomena. One is the conversion of one type of matter to another which labels him as a Master or Matter. One such which I was witness of was the conversion of a hard piece of granite rock into edible candy while the rock was never out of my sight. I examined it before and afterwards ate some of it! Only the Divine One can do such a thing as that. Another thing done when necessary was in convert a bucket of ordinary water drawn from it well nearby into a bucketful of petrol by stirring the water with His forefinger, then it was poured into the petrol tank of the car and the car went on the journey using the petrol that Swami had converted from the water. These and other juggling of the atoms of change one type of matter to another are things that convinces one of His Divine consciousness which is the Master of matter being able to create it and convert it and destroy it. When He produces a Shivalingam from inside Himself which I saw Him do as long ago as 1966, if there is nobody present worthy of receiving the lingam, that is one who will faithfully do regular pujas required to keep the lingam auspicious He dematerialises it, in other words He sends it back to the unmanifest. This might be called the destruction of matter.


You must have read about all of this or some of it in my books, yet the greatest of His miracles is the Divine Love by which He brings about a deep change in the nature of people, his followers. I experienced this also in 1966 on the first occasion when I was alone with Sai Baba. I have described this inner change which might be called the birth of the Christ-child within one. We are born of course with the embryo of the Divine Child within us but this initiation that Swami gives things about the actual birth of the Christ within, then, it is that we begin to know the meaning of true Love and the feeling of oneness with our brother man. This comes about gradually through the years after what I have called the birth of the Christ-child or the initiation into the Divine Life. Many,many people throughout the years have been changed in this way, this deep rooted inner change that is really your first footstep on the path of the homeward journey. Then there is the great compassion of Sai Baba which requires miraculous action for its fulfilment. You may have read in one of my books that some years ago in fact in 1982 when I was diagnosed as having an incurable disease I prayed very earnestly to Sai Baba ,my Guru. I was in a beautiful room in the Adelaide Hills while Sai Baba in the body was of course at that time in India at His ashram. My prayer was so intense that after a sleep on a couch while the sun was shining through the windows I woke up to see Swami's Hand and Arm as it circled over me and I knew hat He had come, that this was a healing gesture. I saw it in that brief time between being asleep and fully awake when as you might have heard, everybody has a short period of clairvoyance. When that short period has passed His Hand and Body disappeared from my vision but He was still there in the room and I knew this by the unbelievably soul-moving sense of the luminous in the room, In fact the room was filled by it and it penetrated the wall to where my wife was sitting in the breakfast room and then when Swami left, the luminous went too. This is what the ancient Romans called "sense of the Presence of the Divine" (the luminous or lumina). Well, I knew that I was cured of the disease and all tests afterwards proved that this was so.


People I know who have the clairvoyant vision see Swami's subtle form almost every day and He has the power to appear in more than one place at a time. When He was younger He used to go into a trance in order to make these necessary out of-the-body journeys to help people, but for many years now He carries on in His body whatever He was doing while sending out of subtle form wherever it is required to do this work in helping mankind. Of this I've had many proofs and I have no doubt whatsoever about it. Through these experiences and my contemplation of them I have come to a firm, unshakeable conviction that we have with us in Sathya Sai Baba one of the greatest Avatars of all time.


As for these petty and ridiculous allegations about God, one whom we should have measure with the measuring tape of the ordinary human mind I myself pay no heed to them whatsoever. They arise through the activities of some egos, anxious either to bring the Great One down to their own level so that their own personal egos may grow as they try to climb the ladder of Divinity and at the same time they are serving the dark forces, that are baffling hard today against the great Light that the Avatar is shedding on earth. And I know too, that He is being supported by man workers in the forcefield of light such as the Ascended Masters, two of them whom I had much to do when I was researching the biographies of the outward founders of the Theosophical Movement. They are Master El Moya and Master Kuthumi who are two of the most powerful masters behind the launching of the Theosophical Society last century. The purpose of which in their own words was 'to turn the crest wave of intellectual thought that was being enlarged by the rapid growth of science during the latter half of last century to turn this, at least some of it towards spiritual shores instead of letting it all break on the rocks of materialism. These two great Ascended Masters have given the weight of their spiritual perception and deep knowledge to confirm what I myself and many others throughout the world feel beyond doubt that we are greatly honoured to have an Avatar of such calibre as Sai Baba on the earth amongst us today. The two Masters stated in the book "The Light Will Set You Free" that Avatar Sai Baba is carrying the Divine-consciousness in the world today."


Another great Indian saint and seer whom you may have read about in the book Autobiography of a Yogi by Paramahamsa Yogananda i.e. Ananda Mayi Ma whose photo is in the book has stated to a Sai devotee that "Sai Baba is not only a great Avatar, but the Greatest that has ever walked the earth." No doubt many people may waiver and other faithless ones may turn away from the Avatar but it will not change His Mission which is to raise the consciousness of enough people in the world to bring about the quantum leap of the consciousness of humanity from the third to the fifth dimension and thus start the new Sathya Yuga.


I can only tell you my dear Richard my own convictions in this matter and let you make your own decision as to which road to travel. One leads to the Light and other to the darkness through which the world has suffered during the long centuries of the Kali Yuga. It is entirely your choice of course, but I pray that you make the right one and lead as many others as you can to do the same. Those working against the Avatar, unless they go to the unredeemable level of becoming demonic will someday in some life come back to the Divine Feet. This I pray and for this I send them my Love.

God bless you,
Sai Ram
Howard Murphet
 
Posted on 10-30-06 5:19 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
Login in to Rate this Post:     0       ?    
 

Fake Materialisations?
Does Sai Baba Fake It?

Ability to Materialise since childhood
Ever since Sai Baba came under notice as a young boy pulling sweets out of a paper bag at school and distributing same to his friends, many have speculated about Sai Baba and his ability to materialise objects and where that ability comes from.


Since 1943, Witnesses tell
Sai Baba's ability to materialise objects has not been doubted from 1943, when he was acclaimed an avatar, nor even before that declaration. In those early days, witnesses recorded materialisations of nectar called amrith, diamond rings, and many, many witnesses told stories of the materialisation of food, of flowers, garlands, idols of Ganesh, Shirdi Sai Baba, Krishna, Rama etc. Pendants, japa, mangala sutra for marriages, photographs and portraits, many many early devotees, from Anjaneyulu, the Excise Inspector in Uravakonda, Sakamma, Kamalamma, Subbamma, his mother, his father, friends, devotees, all witnessed a constant flow of materialisations. Even then, in those days, there were doubters and critics.
In 1960, Sai Baba addressed doubters
Faith can grow only by long cultivation and careful attention. The old are haunted by the demon of doubt. I know there are many here who are afflicted by doubts. They think that I have hidden a vessel of Amritha in a spot in the sands previously fixed and known to Me only. That is why I now asked some, from among those people themselves, to decide where we sit on these sands. Kasturi suggested this morning that since the thousands who have come to see the Amrithodbhava cannot get a close view on this flat river bed, a mound of sand be raised whereon I can sit. I did not agree because I knew these doubters would immediately infer that the Amritha was hidden previously under the mound that was heaped up on purpose! This doubt is truly a component of the Rakshasa nature, for it eats into the vitals of Bhakthi. It clips the wings of joy, it dampens enthusiasm, it tarnishes hope. Such men cannot attain the goal even at the end of a thousand births. Of course, when doubt assails you, welcome the chance to see and experience and clear the doubt. But do not later deny the very truth of which you were once convinced and listen again to the voice of hate or foolishness. Do not put faith in the words of men into whose hands you will not entrust your purse; as a matter of fact, it is the words of such men that are now leading many astray. Really, this is a pitiable state of things, isn't it? [ 23 Nov 1960, Sathya Sai Speaks Vol 2]
Man of Miracles
Sathya Sai Baba has often said, "Miracles are my visiting cards". It is largely through miracles and materialisations that Sai Baba becomes known to people - materialisations of vibhuti, and other substances on pictures of Sai Baba - these are well known phenomena that are mentioned in books and attract visitors to to both place'Man of Miracles' himself, Sai Baba.



Scientists' Examination and Investigation
Associate Professor of Psychology at University of Iceland, para psychologist Dr.Erlendur Haraldsson came to India several times to investigate Satya Sai Baba's paranormal powers.The result of his efforts over ten years is the book "Miracles are My Visiting Cards. It has a scientific examination and analysis of miracle and materialisation stories. Of more interest is the interviews with the editor of an Indian Magazine, RK Karinjia and Sai Baba. The following extracts are taken from the 1994 publication, "God Lives in India" with permission of the publisher:
Magazine Editor Interviews Baba
SYMBOL OF LOVE & DIVINITY
Q: What is the significance of the Vibhuthi
and the trinkets that you materialise and gift to
people ? Is there any need for a God - man to
demonstrate such miracles which any magician can
conjure ?

Baba : So far as I am concerned, this is
evidence of my Divinity. It is not by any means an
exhibition of Divinity....


Q: Still I do not understand why you should
materialise rings, bracelets, watches and those kind
of trinkets ?

TALISMAN OF PROTECTION

Baba : Most people desire talismans symbolic
of my protection. So I provide them. When they are
in trouble they FEEL the grip of the ring, bracelet or
watch to remember me and call me to their rescue
so that I can help them. On the other hand, if I give
them something that they cannot wear, they are likely
to store it and forget about it.

The main thing is that these trinkets or
talisman, by whatever name you call them give
people a sense of security and protection they need
in time of trouble or crisis and create a symbolic link
covering the long distances between them and
myself. When the devotees need me, these objects
flash the message as if by wireless and I instantly
come to their rescue.

...

SIGNIFICANCE OF VIBHUTI

Q: What about the Vibhuti materialised by
you? We would like to know its relevance because
your critics are trying to discredit you by sending
round magicians who produce exact replicas of
Vibhuthi.

Baba: What I materialise is a manifestation of
Divinity with a potent significance as well as
symbolisation. It is symbolic of the cosmic, immortal
and infinite nature of all forms of God, Atma or the
Spirit - that is, what is left when everything worldly,
transient and changeable has burnt away...

...It is in order to press home this lesson that I
materialise ash for those who come to me with love
and devotion. Like the other materialisations, it also
acts as a talisman healing the sick and giving
protection to those who need it. It is the symbol of
Divinity...

The Phenomena of Materializations:
It is pertinent to recall that not all materialisations occur in Prasanthi Nilayam, as a result of direct physical activity by the person of Sathya Sai Baba in his presence. What many critics and the evidence rendered very conveniently overlook is the multiple recorded materialisations and other phenomena in India and elsewhere in the world done by Sathya Sai Baba.

Phenomena materialised
by Sai Baba Personally Phenomena materialised Elsewhere
Vibhuthi Vibhuti on Shrines
Rings
Earrings Vibhuti footsteps
Pendants
Lockets Kumkum, Amrith,
Butter on pictures and idols
Japamala
(Rosary beads) Fruit
Statues, Linghams,
Lingodbhava (Golden Lingham) Photographs
Pictures of Gods
Medallions, Diamonds,
Precious stones
Pictures of Gods Letters taken at shrines
Food Vibhuti on letters offered at shrines
Wish Fulfilling tree
(many different fruits materialised) Flowers falling, garlands move, garlands become larger
Water from ground
Water to Petrol Writing on walls
live animals Vibhuti writing on pictures
Sacred Objects from the past
Precious Gems from the past
Wood from Cross of Christ







Examination of Materialisations
Materialisations and miracles immediately beckon the witness and the hearer toward the world of biblical miracles, the second coming of Christ, healers, miracle workers and gurus, with some overlay of magic, fakery and cult. It has elements of fascination that appeals to inner desire to believe that such manipulations of the seemingly resolute laws of nature might be true. And, if they are true, who or what is the doer of these miraculuous acts? Innate fascination, desire, curiosity, all these elements are at play when people attend to the matter of materialisations and miracles. Any assessment that generates belief or is based on intangible elements of proof, will create controversy. Many people demand proofs for suspension of disbelief. many more people see and see and see and do not enquire into the nature of any materialisations.



Conjured or Materialised,
True Guru or Charlatan?
Open or Closed?
Discussion and evaluation of this topic ranges from disbelief, to doubt, to belief in Sathya Sai Baba as God and SatGuru.

The simple facts are so: Sai Baba moves his hand in the familiar circling motion, something appears from his downward facing hand. We shall name this a sign. The sign is evaluated. Signs tell a message and significance is drawn out of what is seen, heard, tasted, witnessed. One process of evaluation of the sign (be it a rosary, a ring, or a picture) is the Either-Or evaluation. This is the Open - Closed evaluation. It has no middle ground. Either Sai Baba is true God or true-guru or he is a fake, a conjuror, a magician. There is no room for further evidence or discussion. The door is open, or the door is closed. No further aspects around Sai Baba are admitted into consideration. Door opens and shuts on one criteria only.


Both this, and the other?
Other means of evaluation may be explored. One such means can include the material of the open - and shut method and assess that against additional evidence, and other useful criteria:
The Vedas proclaim what is seen reflects the seer (Sai Baba has often told in his talks that everything is 'reaction, reflection, resound');


Witnesses have to assess what they have seen and take it into their self-enquiry


It is the duty of the Guru to expose doubt and draw it out


The Bhagavad Gita speaks of creation as leela vinodi, 'the sport of the Lord';


The Both-And evaluation considers more options for exploration and assessment. Additional evidence may be considered. Evaluation is a process. There can be opportunity for self-appraisal vis-a-vis spiritual progress, analysis of Sathya Sai Baba and his action, and consideration of the purposes behind the phenomenon witnessed.

There is nothing gained by making lifetime decisions about the person or nature or role of Sathya Sai Baba on the basis of gossip or unverified second hand stories. Any decision based on second hand stories disposes of the unique human capacity of discriminaton and the intellect. Persons making such a decision act in self inflicted ignorance.)
The Vibhuti Pellet
Consider the reports of Sathya Sai Baba using a pellet of vihhuti, crushing it between his fingers, and distributing it to devotees.

Recently, one devotee reported seeing a vibhuti pellet fall from Sai Baba's hand in darshan, whilst he was walking around. No one else saw this. Later enquiry among those sitting either side of him and opposite him in darshan revealed that no other men present witnessed this. Only this one devotee saw it. The devotee is adamant and repeats "I saw the pellet fall". He has no doubt about it. Who is the play for?


If we take the elements of the Both-And evaluation and combine it with the sign-signifier-significance, some useful extrapolations may be made:



Sign
Signifier Significance
vibhuti pellet mind of the witness Exposes disbelief
(seen reflects the seer)
vibhuti on Sai Baba
picture overseas Sathya Sai Baba Guru's shakti not limited to ashram
diamond ring given to devotee is shown to be fake mind of the witness Witnesses have to assess what they have seen and take it into their self-enquiry
Sathya Sai Baba
obviously palms a ring Sathya Sai Baba Baba is playing on devotee projections (Guru task is to expose doubt)
Sathya Sai Baba
changes a 3 stone ring into one stone ring Sathya Sai Baba creation is leela vinodi,
the sport of the Lord
Sai Baba materialises article used by Krishna
Sathya Sai Baba Guru has mastery of time and space
Film evidence shows a necklace is handed to Sathya Sai Baba Sathya Sai Baba Sathya Sai Baba provokes controversy about his nature and his actions




The Play of the Atma
The purpose of the Sai Incarnation is to show the path of blessedness to those who have forgotten that path. Complacency does not merit belief; doubt is not dissolved by closing a door arbitarily and refusing to examine fact and experience further.

Controversy is a valid an instrument of divine self revelation just as glimpses of creation-ex-nihilo and the leela vinodi, the play of the Lord. If witnesses do not examine and assess both themselves and their own personal experience of the Guru, then no progress toward divinity is experienced, nor is divinity known.

We conclude that materialisation and the conjuror's trick of trade may occur in the text and the context of the faith journey of an individual devotee as shown earlier on this page. We conclude both materialisation and obvious palm tricks may be employed by Sai Baba in his task as guru to rid the devotee of maya, illusion, laziness, lack of faith, disbelief, tamasic slothfulness and uncritical acceptance of the stories of talebearers without proper enquiry.


Purport of Controversy
Sathya Sai Baba, in engaging in controversy, is challenging devotees and others to examine, evaluate, test and decide, as he has so often told in his discourses that each and any who come to him ought do. As guru and guide, Sathya Sai Baba is providing the different means needed for individuals to progress toward divinity. That is his duty as guru.

So BOTH true materialisations and AND conjured materialisations may exist in the repertoire of Sai Baba and his materialisations, for the various reasons noted above. Perhaps Sai Baba wants devotees to examine the basis of their faith in HIM and his acts more critically. Perhaps some need the rude awakening and goad toward discrimination that controversy so conveniently provides. Perhaps Sai Baba is Bala Krishna from time to time, at play and illuminating devotees to lighten up and not take it all so seriously.


Keep in Mind
One must continually keep in mind that Sai Baba as told that the path toward divinity and God-realisation is different for each and every person, and no two persons get to the goal via the same path. So these controversies will have different functions for different devotees and other witnesses. The only valid assessment of conjuration or fakery, if it is seen, is your own personal evaluation. What will be your basis of that evaluation?
 
Posted on 10-30-06 5:49 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
Login in to Rate this Post:     0       ?    
 
 
Posted on 10-30-06 6:04 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
Login in to Rate this Post:     0       ?    
 

STOP copying articles/letters from other people.
If you have something to say, be oroginal. Or at least give reference.
 
Posted on 10-30-06 6:07 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
Login in to Rate this Post:     0       ?    
 

CHeck out this one also:

http://www.saisathyasai.com/Rahm-Public-Court-Records/
 
Posted on 10-30-06 6:21 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
Login in to Rate this Post:     0       ?    
 

India's laws and rules are so stringent that it would not spare anyone found guilty. There is no reason to believe whatever allegations on Sai Baba.
 
Posted on 10-30-06 9:51 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
Login in to Rate this Post:     0       ?    
 
 
Posted on 10-30-06 9:54 PM     Reply [Subscribe]
Login in to Rate this Post:     0       ?    
 






























The Truth about Sathya Sai Baba !

You can read all about this in Dutch too...


You are now going to read some articles...




You are now going to read the latest news on this page...


You are going to read some work from critical authors...



You are going to see some very good maps...

 

You are going to the English openingspage...


You are going to read some statements of wittnesses...


You are now going to read some letters of ex devotees


You are going to see some addresses of ex devotees...


You are now going to read the Findings...


You are now going to read how ex-devotees try to recover from their experiences...


You are going to see some very good maps...


You are going to read all about the murders in the ashram and more...


 


Welcome to www.exbaba.com


Website of concerned


former devotees of


Sathya Sai Baba


 


Sai Baba... outstanding disappointment in flesh...



The purpose of this site is to inform the public about a number of disconcerting reports that must be painful to many of Sai Baba's devotees. For some time now a lot of information in English is to be found on the web referring to his sexual dealings with male devotees of ages ranging from seven to thirty.


Although some scattered articles and persistent rumours were reported as early as the sixties, The Findings, an authorised document compiled by David and Faye Bailey, ranks first here. From its appearance on the web it started off a spate of reactions; angry or bewildered ones from devotees, but exhilarated and congratulating calls and letters from former victims and their families, who now at last also dared to speak out. The Baileys were long-standing devotees; they tell us about sexual abuse, fraud, misuse of funds and an attempt to murder Sai Baba. As a result many prominent functionaries left the movement.


The Findings, as well as everything that came before and after, you will find here in the original English version. A few valuable Dutch contributions from former devotees will be translated into English.


We hope that even those who keep shaking their heads in disbelief will keep on reading with an open mind and become curious enough to start their own research. You will find a number of persons here willing to help and give additional information.


After reading please give your own opinion in our visitor's book.


 


collage.jpg (38307 bytes)


The Editors of the site are:


  • Andries Krugers Dagneaux (main representative, supervisor and contact)
    Phone: +31 20 691 33 55 (from abroad)
    P
    hone: 020-691 33 55 (inside the Netherlands)
    Email:
    mailform.


  • Klaas and Jenny Knol (news and translation)
    Rolandseck 120
    6865 AG Doorwerth
    Netherlands
    Phone / Fax 31-263343194
    Email:
    mailform.


  • Jaap Hutte (news and translation)
    Pascalstraat 27
    7323 EX Apeldoorn
    Netherlands
    Phone: 31-553660772
    Email:
    mailform



  • Reinier van der Sandt (technical webmaster)
    St. Jacobsplantsoen 47
    4105 BZ Culemborg
    Netherlands
    Phone / fax: 31-0345521582

    Email:
    mailform


 


zwart.jpg (6597 bytes)


 



When one door falls to in front of us, another opens, but often we keep staring so regretfully at the closed entrance that we don't notice the one standing wide open.


 








 









Disclaimer


The owners and webmaster of ExBaba do not necessarily regard the content of all pages on this site to be entirely valid and true or endorse the opinions expressed therein. Further, mistakes and misinformation can sometimes occur. All such errors that can reasonably be demonstrated or documented will be altered or deleted by the owners of this website. Please contact the current webmaster by mailform


 


 







 


Please Log in! to be able to reply! If you don't have a login, please register here.

YOU CAN ALSO



IN ORDER TO POST!




Within last 90 days
Recommended Popular Threads Controvertial Threads
TPS Re-registration case still pending ..
Toilet paper or water?
Tourist Visa - Seeking Suggestions and Guidance
From Trump “I will revoke TPS, and deport them back to their country.”
advanced parole
Sajha Poll: Who is your favorite Nepali actress?
ढ्याउ गर्दा दसैँको खसी गनाउच
To Sajha admin
Problems of Nepalese students in US
Mamta kafle bhatt is still missing
अरुणिमाले दोस्रो पोई भेट्टाइछिन्
Nepali Passport Renewal
seriously, when applying for tech jobs in TPS, what you guys say when they ask if you have green card?
MAGA denaturalization proposal!!
Are Nepalese cheapstakes?
Nepali Psycho
How to Retrieve a Copy of Domestic Violence Complaint???
wanna be ruled by stupid or an Idiot ?
NOTE: The opinions here represent the opinions of the individual posters, and not of Sajha.com. It is not possible for sajha.com to monitor all the postings, since sajha.com merely seeks to provide a cyber location for discussing ideas and concerns related to Nepal and the Nepalis. Please send an email to admin@sajha.com using a valid email address if you want any posting to be considered for deletion. Your request will be handled on a one to one basis. Sajha.com is a service please don't abuse it. - Thanks.

Sajha.com Privacy Policy

Like us in Facebook!

↑ Back to Top
free counters