Yes, thanks to writer Kedar Sharma's encouragement, I too learnt to type in Nepali
this past week-end in about an hour.

Yes, that's true -- in about an hour.
Was amazed by the experience.
Did not know that Nepali typing in Unicode was/is so easy.

I would recommend this to you all, if you don't know this nice little secret
already.

As they say, a good thing like this is to be shared widely.

oohi
ashu

Realizing that HSEB's proposal was not exactly what I had thought before and also that it appears to be lacking professionalism, I suspended my earlier support.

- http://www.sajha.com/sajha/html/openThread.cfm?forum=2&ThreadID=22320#146358

I am glad to hear about the withdrawal of the proposal by HSEB now.

While I standby my major argument and principles in them, I also acknowledge the sensitivity and importance of issues like language and policy and would argue that a balance of 'inclusive democracy' and 'academic professionalism' is the best approach to deal with it.

I will keep sharing my personal view and vision about Nepali language policy in Nepal and would like to request my fellow Sajhaites to bear with my rather off-beat and apparently unpopular views on this issue.

My intention is to contribute to a good discussion than to be a popular poster. So I will be happily taking heat from my dear friends, Newuser, Dadagriri, Guna, OK, Deep, username and all other strongly opinionated fellow Sajhaites in future discussions on the subject hoping that HSEB's decision to withdraw it's proposal does not end the discussion.

Nepe

एकीकरण पश्चात, र बिषेश गरी राणाकालिन ?मुलुकी ऐन? को शुरुवात पछि, अनि धेरै हद सम्म पञ्चायती प्रथाले पनि, जुन तरीकाले खस (नेपाली) भाषालाई प्राथमिकता दिई अन्य जन जातिय भाषाहरुको थिचोमिचो गरियो, त्यो अन्यायलाई औंल्याउने नेपे-जीको प्रयास मुनासिब हो। यही हिसाबमा विभिन्न दमनात्मक शासकहरु द्वारा आफ्नै आधिकारिक स्वार्थ पूर्तिका निम्ति एक धर्म (हिन्दु), एक भेष (मयल पोश/ढाका टोपी), ईत्यादिको प्रणाली बसाउने सफल प्रयास पनि समालोचनात्मक नभए बिवादास्पद जरुर छ। मेरो बिचारमा धर्म र भेषका नाममा गरिएका ऐतिहासिक गल्तीहरु सजिलैसंग सुल्झाउन सकिन्छ, र सुल्झाउन पनि पर्छ ? हिन्दु धर्म र मयल पोशलाई ??साझा? नेपाली चिनारी? को सूचीबाट हटाईदेऊ! तर, नेपाली भाषाको कुरो अर्कै। विभिन्न जन जातिय भाषाहरु प्रति गरिएको अन्यायलाई सुल्झाउन नेपाली हटाउनु भन्दा अरु भाषाहरुलाई बढ्दो प्राथमिकता दिएर उनिहरुलाई पनि ?नेपाली चिनारी? मा महत्त्वपूर्ण स्थान ओगट्न दिए बेश होला।

अब, राष्ट्रियता कै कुरा गर्ने हो भने, राष्ट्रिय एकताको नाममा ?एउटै भाषा, एउटै भेष? को बहस प्रति मेरो रत्तिभर समर्थन छैन ? बिभिन्न भाषा र बिभिन्न भेषको सही आदर र ग्रहण गर्न सक्नु नै राष्ट्रिय एकताको सबभन्दा बलियो र निर्भर योग्य स्रोत हुन्छ जस्तो मलाई लाग्छ। तर, छुट्टै बहसको बिचार गर्ने हो भने, अहिलेको यथावत वास्तविकतामा नेपाली भाषाले आम नेपालीको एक गहिरो चिनारीको रुप लिएको मात्र नभई, मुख्यतया यसले सारा नेपालीको साझा साञ्चारिक माध्यमको एक महत्त्वपूर्ण भूमिका खेलेको छ। यस स्वीकार योग्य तथ्यलाई मध्यनजर राखेर नेपाली पढाउने नै निर्णय गर्ने हो भने, नेपाली भाषालाई ११ त के, १२ कक्षा (नयाँ उच्च माध्यमिकको स्तरको हिसाबले) सम्मै अनिवार्य गराईनु पर्छ। नेपाली र अँग्रेजी दुबैलाई राम्ररी पढ्न र लेख्?न सिकाईनुपर्छ, उच्च माध्यमिकको स्तर सम्म। कलेज पसेपछि भने, ऐछिक गराईंदा पनि फरक नपर्ला।

अब कुरो उठ्यो, बिध्यार्थीहरु अकसर गरेर नेपालीमा फेल हुने तथ्यको। त्यस्तै कुरा गर्ने हो भने, मेरो शंकामा अधिकांश असफल निस्कने नेपाली बिध्यार्थीहरु नेपालीमा भन्दा अँग्रेजी मै फेल हुन्छन् होला। भूल भए सच्च्याई पाऊँ। तर कुरो के भने, कुनै पनि बिषयमा बिध्यार्थीहरुले राम्रो गर्न सकेनन् भन्ने निहूँमा उक्त बिषयलाई पाठ्यतालिकाबाट मिल्काईने हो भने त, कसले भन्न सक्छ, भोलि आएर विज्ञान, गणित, ईत्यादिको पनि सोहि नतिजा नहोला? त्यसैले, चाहे जस्तो नतिजा नल्याउने, तर पाठ्यकालमा जरुरी ठहरिएको, बिषयलाई मिल्काउनु भन्दा, पढाईने तरीका सुधारेर हुन्छ कि, वा पढाईने वस्तु बदलेर हुन्छ कि, वा कुन अरु तरीकाले बिषय वस्तुलाई रोचक एवम् आकर्षित बनाउन सकिन्छ भन्ने कुरातिर ध्यान दिईनुपर्छ।

Getting a high school diploma in Nepal is notoriously difficult.

Let me share a ROUGH calculation:

In the last 20 years, 12 lakh (regular) students have failed the SLC while only 6
lakh have passed the SLC.

[Keep in mind that Nepali kids start dropping out of school from Class 1 onward. One estimate I read somewhere says that if 100 kids start out in Class 1 in Nepal, only 12
of them will go on to actually sit for the SLCs, and of that 12, 8 will fail the SLCs.)

Think about the tremendous waste of human talents we tolerate in Nepal -- year in and year out.

Anyway, of the 6 lakh who passed (i.e. those who went on for +2 in Nepal) the SLC in the last 20 years, two-thirds of them flunked their Intermediate or +2.

So, total passed altogether: ONLY 2 lakh proper high school graduates have been produced in the last 20 years in Nepal.

Of these, only the most ambitious and the able go on to finish college in and out of Nepal, and (some of them might even post their comments on Sajha.com!).

Whether we like it or not, these the nation is built pretty much by these 2 lakh people . . .that is, these 2 lakh AT LEAST high school-passed Nepalis.

Getting a +2 Pass certificate in Nepal is a matter of privilege and luck and
NOT a right.

So, let the kids -- who have ALREADY studied Nepali for 10 long years -- NOW decide how they want to position themselves for higher studies and for the job market.

If some of the kids REALLY want to learn Nepali in Class 11, fine, make their schools put resources to bring in good teachers and set up good systems for Nepali instruction.

But if the kids, having learnt Nepai compulsorily since Class 1, NOW want to learn
math or home science or accounting instead of Nepali, LET THEM HAVE THAT CHOICE TOO.

Here, I am all for making EVEN English an OPTIONAL subject.
Let the Nepali kids flourish by studying whatever it is that they have talents for.
If they really need English to do well, they'll figure out a learn it well.

[Nepali Chinese-language tourist guides pick up Chinese in one year because the fluency in Chinese is related to their dal-bhaat concerns; while the same guides will have spent 15 years learning English, and will still be nowhere in terms of writing and speaking it fluently.]

Education, especially everything above primary levels, is all about choices: figuring out what you are good at, and making your choices accordingly so that you can go on to
be happy, productive citizens on your own terms . . . that should be the goal of every one concerned about the state of education in Nepal.

*******************

We all love Nepali language.
A Nepali's love for Nepali language should never be questioned like the love one has for one's mother. This is a given.

But what profoundly angers me is that these fire-breathing members of
"Nepali bhasa" brigade:

a) WRAP themselves up -- Panchayat-style -- with the jhanda of nationalism
b) Start throwing their "you are unpatriotic" flames to others who love Nepali bhasa as much as they do but have other ideas about making it OPTIONAL in Class 11
c) REFUSE to use statistics, pass/fail rates and other relevant numbers to make their arguments
d) USE shrill emotional arguments to intimidate those holding different views
e) REFUSE to acknowledge that the job markets out there in Nepal and outside (unless you aim to work as a clerk at Sajha Prakashan) place NO value whatsoever on literary Nepali skills

And the way they got that decision reversed was through pure emotional blackmail
and intimidating tactics and by accusing the other side of bad faith and worst motives
-- NOT through sensible, realistic arguments.

If any of you are really interested in seeing the smorsgasbord of choices available to Class 11 students in Nepal, take a look at this:

-http://www.moe.gov.np/stats/stat_hseb.php


oohi
ashu

Humm..It looks like Nepe ji and Ashu ji starting to differ now..one has accepted the decision and other still hasn't

This article may clear some confusion:
http://www.kantipuronline.com/Nepal/sixya.php

"उच्च माध्यमिक शिक्षा परिषद्ले गत जेठमा पाठ्यक्रम कार्यान्वयन तथा विषय छनोट निर्देशिका परिमार्जन गर्?यो । सो परिमार्जनले नेपाली भाषाको पठनपाठनको तीन क्ष्ाेत्रलाई प्रभावित पार्?यो ः

अनिवार्य नेपालीको मानविकी, शिक्षा र वाणिज्य समूहको कक्षा ११ को पाठ्यक्रम १२ मा सारी निरन्तरता भङ्ग ।

शिक्षा समूहमा कक्षा १२ मा पठनपाठन हुँदैआएको ५० पूणर्ाङ्कको नेपाली भाषा शिक्षणलगायत अन्य विषयगत शिक्ष्ाणको पाठ्यक्रम खारेज ।

मानविकी र शिक्षा समूहमा कक्षा ११ र १२ मा पढाइने ऐच्छिक नेपालीलाई भाषा समूहमा नराखी अर्थशास्त्र, इतिहास आदि विषयका साथ छुट्टै समूहमा ।"

ViVji,

उ.मा.शि.प. को निर्णयहरु भद्रगोल रहेछन्, त्यसैले मेरो असहमति ।

*** *** ***

अनिलजी,

मेरो अहिलेसम्मको बहस नेपाली भाषावादीहरुले प्रस्तुत गरेका तर्कहरुको खण्डनमा मात्र सिमित रहेको छ । मेरो आफ्नो तर्फको तर्कहरु प्रस्तुत गर्ने त अवसरै पाएको छुईन बाबा ।

अन्य केहि मित्रहरुले जस्तै तपाईले पनि मेरो बहसबारे गरिदिनुभएको assumptions सहि नभएकोले त्यसको खण्डन मात्र गर्न हाजिर छु अहिले ।

तपाईले लेख्नुभो:
एकीकरण पश्चात, र बिषेश गरी राणाकालिन 'मुलुकी ऐन' को शुरुवात पछि, अनि धेरै हद सम्म पञ्चायती प्रथाले पनि, जुन तरीकाले खस (नेपाली) भाषालाई प्राथमिकता दिई अन्य जन जातिय भाषाहरुको थिचोमिचो गरियो, त्यो अन्यायलाई औंल्याउने नेपे-जीको प्रयास मुनासिब हो।

अहँ, मैले न त त्यस्तो कुरा कतै औंल्याएको छु, न त मेरो बहस नै त्यो दिशामा छ । वास्तवमा मेरो बहस त्यसको ठ्याक्कै उल्टो दिशामा अर्थात भाषालाई राजनीति भन्दा माथि उक्लेर हेर्नुतिर छ ।

विस्तृत कुरा अलिक फुर्सदमा गरम्ला ।

Nepe-ji,

Pardon me if I misonstured some of your sentences.

Ashu,

I agree with you that callous arguments based on thoughtless "nationalism" do little to prove the merits of the cause they are fighting for. I hope I have not portrayed myself as such.

I also agree with you that the choices to pursue vocational (or other) subjects should be available for students who are not able to excel in some compulsory subjects. However, language is one area that the students must be made to work on if they are to become effective communicators. What good would a carpenter, or a doctor, or an electrician be if s/he cannot articulate his ideas and thoghts well and communicate those ideas and thoughts effectively?

Therefore, in the Nepali context, both Nepali and English (former being "sajha Nepali maadhyam" of communication and the latter being useful in the global context) should be pursued as compulsory subjects until high school, I think. High school level language courses do not necessarily have to focus on deeper literary aspects of languages -- college-level optional language courses can do that. But in order to hone the skills of effective communication, I think language courses (Nepali and English) must be made compulsory until high school, i.e. class 12.

If the majority of the students are not doing well in ANY mandatory and necessary subjects, then the authorities should find ways to make teachign methods more effective and interesting, rather than abolish the subject all together from the mandatory list.

Think about it. The same applies to math.

Anil writes:

"What good would a carpenter, or a doctor, or an electrician be if s/he cannot articulate his ideas and thoghts well and communicate those ideas and thoughts effectively?"



I agree with you conceptually. But having seen how things work out in Nepal, I disagree with you as a matter of practical consideration.

Anil, you and I were both very lucky to have excellent English AND Nepali teachers in high school.

But unfortunately, the reality is that most Nepalis -- who are very talented on their
own in the arts or in the sciences or in mathematics -- do NOT have good teachers to begin with. They fail NOT because they are dumb or stupid, but the resources devoted to teaching languages remain so khattam.

Most of these students fail their language classes, and are labelled "failed students" overall. Our credential-obsessed Nepali system is so impractically rigid that once
you fail a subject or two on your SLC or +2, climbing out of that mess becomes AN EXTREMELY DIFFICULT task. Most students simply give up, and are doomed to live
lives that fall far, far below their potential. And that's very, very sad for a country that has NO other resources except its human resources.

Once the students fail in Nepali or English, almost ALL formal academic/professional doors are closed to them. And that destroys ANY chance they might have to have a even a minimally successful career as a, say, electrician or a plumber. Even to go to a, say, plumbing technical institute, you need to have passed your SLC or +2 -- which, I think, is too HIGH a barrier given our realities.

I'd have supported these self-styled members of the Nepali bhasa brigade if they
had argued for BETTER Nepali teaching, if they had lobbied for MORE RESOURCES
to teach better Nepali to more students.

But what disgusts me is that these guys are NOT interested in pushing for that sort of thing. Claiming themselves to be more-Nepali-than-thou, and painting their critics as people out to destroy Nepali nationalism, these guys just want to shove compulsory Nepali down the throat of all students in Class 11, whether they want it or not and whether they like it or not and whether they need it or not.

My position is this:

Make English optional from Class 1 onward.
Make Nepali optional from Class 11 onward.
Give more Nepalis chances to succeed in life through BASIC up-to-high-school level education which allows them to at least seek jobs to make a living.

There's no point teaching compulsory English to 2 million kids in Year I to have only
500 of them speaking that language to tourists by Year 12.

English may be an international language, but, let's face it, NOT every Nepali is going
to have an international career! Besides, we simply do not have the resources to teach English well to all.

And if Nepalis need to learn English or any other languages later on for
professional reasons, they can always join classes and learn those languages much quicker just as Nepalis have learnt Spanish, French, Chinese and German very well
in much shorter amount of time.

Likewise, I 'd like to LOWER the barriers for success in Nepal so that more Nepalis can pursue VARIOUS paths to success without going through the ONLY available narrow funnel of school-based language classes.

******
Anil writes:

"What good would a carpenter, or a doctor, or an electrician be if s/he cannot articulate his ideas and thoghts well and communicate those ideas and thoughts effectively? "


Anil, I have dealt with electricians and carpenters for construction-related work in Nepal, and, believe me, their fluency in any language was of LEAST concern to me as long as they understood and carried out my instructions to do the work they were hired for.

That said, I am wary of very articulate electrician or a plumber who is lousy at his job.
Who knows, he may be affiliated with some rinky-dinky UML-trade union, and may
cause trouble at the work site. :-)

oohi
ashu

*****

Anil writes:

"What good would a carpenter, or a doctor, or an electrician be if s/he cannot articulate his ideas and thoghts well and communicate those ideas and thoughts effectively? "


One more thing:

Given our desh ko reality, most Nepali plumbers and electricians (with no high school certificate but with basic training that the 'manpower agencies' arranges for them at the last minute) have gone to the Middle East for work to earn up to ONLY Nepali Rs. 10,000 a month.

That has created lots of jobs for Indian plumbers and electricians in Kathmandu, where the real estate/construction market is booming.

Perhaps, again, given our reality, those hiring plumbers and electricians in Nepal
may need to take Hindi 101 :-)

oohi
ashu

Lets get back to the original topic on this thread.

I am in the final stage of checking for a software that
can convert Preeti font based Nepali into Unicode Nepali.
Well, everyone here knows that its already there in your
computer. I am not making this software for those
who use their computer all the time. When you are in
public computers or other's computer who won't let you
install any new software or fonts to read Preeti Font based
Nepali text, you can use this software. You will need to
open http://www.hahoo.net/ and then do some cut
and paste steps, then you can read Unicode Nepali anywhere
in the world. You can even convert your old Preeti based
texts to Unicode. ..... Keep on tuning. Count down starts
from Today. First Bet version will be released by next
monday.

GP
http://www.hahoo.net/
GyaNeX Solutions

I was able to develop a code that can convert preeti font into unicode nepali.

The first part of the page from following URL was converted to Unicode Nepali:
Accuracy is not bad (more than 95%). You may compare these texts with original
and feel that you can read preeti font based Nepali all around the world, no
matter where you are. You need MS Windows 2000 or later versions. Try it.
Follow the procedure given at the end of page http://www.hahoo.net/ -- Cheers GP

- http://www.nepalnews.com.np/contents/nepaliweekly/deshantar/2005/jul/jul24/sports.php

रोलरले पेलेको नेपाली कि्रकेट

कुमार राउत

काठमाडौँ । आन्तरिक विवादको कारण देखाउँदै राष्ट्रिय खेलकुद परिषद्का सदस्य-सचिव किशोरबहादुर िसंहले नेपाल कि्रकेट संघ क्यान दोस्रोपटक पुनर्गठन गरेका छन् । नेपालमा फुटबलपछि लोकपि्रयता आर्जन गर्दै गरेको कि्रकेट खेल असक्षम र गैरजिम्मेवार खेल पदाधिकारीले धराशयी बनाउन पुगेको वास्तविकता सबैका सामु छर्लङ्ग छ र यस्ता असक्षमता भ्रष्टाचार र गैरजिम्मेवारीको ढाकछोप गर्न पुनर्गठनको नाटक गरिन्छ । अहिले पुनर्गठन गरिएका पदाधिकारीहरु पनि नयाँ बोतलमा पुरानै रक्सी हुन् र विगत २ वर्षमा क्यानमा भएको लाखौंको अनियमिता र गैरजिम्मेवारीको नालायकीपन छोप्न पुनर्गठन गरिएको हो भन्न हिचकिचाउनु पर्दैन ।

सदस्य-सचिव िसंहले नियुक्ति भएको सय दिनपछि २०६० साल वैशाख १८ गते एकैपटक १० वटा संघ विघटन गरेका थिए । त्यही १० संघमध्ये कि्रकेट पनि एक थियो । अन्य संघहरुभन्दा क्यान ढिलो पुनर्गठन गरिएको थियो । पुनर्गठन गर्दा १७ बाट बढाएर २६ सदस्यीय समिति बनाइएको थियो । पदाधिकारीहरु अन्य जोसुकै आए पनि अध्यक्षबाट जयकुमारनाथ साह हटेनन् । सन् १९६५ देखि अहिलेसम्म अध्यक्ष रहेका जयकुमारनाथ तराईमूलका साह हुन् । शाहीनातेदार रहेका जयकुमारनाथले चारदशक लामो कार्यकालमा नेपाल कि्रकेट संघलाई अन्तर्राष्ट्रिय कि्रकेट काउ_िन्सल आईसीसी र एसिया कि्रकेट काउ_िन्सल एसीसी सँग सम्बन्धन गराए ।

कि्रकेट विकासका लागि आईसीसी र एसीसीबाट आएको रकम भ्रष्टाचार गर्दा भागशान्ति नमिलेपछि पदाधिकारीबीच गुट-उपगुट सिर्जना भयो । क्यानमा कतिसम्म भ्रष्टाचार हँुदोरहेछ भन्ने रोलर काण्ड एउटा सानो उदाहरण हुनसक्छ । कि्रकेट मैदानको पिच सम्याउन क्यानले भारतबाट रोलर झिकायो । रेजस्टोन कम्पनीले उपलब्ध गराएको रोलरका नेपाली एजेन्ट जैन वर्मा र मनोज शर्मा हुन् । यी दुवै सदस्य-सचिव िसंहका जाँड पार्टनर हुन् ।

नेपालीमा टाइप गर्न जानेनम् भन्नेहुरलाई यो धागोको पुच्छर तानेर देखाको।
(गोतामेको धागोमा मलाई कंश मामा भन्या जस्तो छ, तेसो भऽर पनि म तिवारीको धागोमा आको रे क्या!)

दादा रिसाको हो कि क्या हो भन्या? मैले दादालाई कंश भनेकै होईन । दादा गिरि मामा खोज्न हिँडेका हाम्रा काजी सा'प फेरि चुलेसी गिरिकाँ पुग्लान् भनेर होशियार गराको मात्र पो ।

म पनि नेपाली सिक्दै छु। मलाइ नेपालीमा लेख्न निकै अप्ठ्यारो लाग्थ्यो तर अब भने सबै नेपालीले नेपालीलाइ नेपालीमा लेख्न सक्ने भए।

मेरो रहर पनि पुरा भएको छ।

दादा गिरीले मलाई देखाको हो जस्तो छ
मैले पनि धेरै जसो सिकिसकेँ
सबैलाई धन्यबाद :-)
अब म पनि यसको पुच्छर तानौँ न है।।।
हे हे

यो धागोलाई साझाको सिरानीमै राखेको राम्रो। अरु पनि होलान् नि यस्को खोजीमा।

I really want to learn to type at least my name.... natra ta kalo acher bhisi barabar....

i desperately need help in this one. how do i get started anyway? advice will be welcome.

Scarlett,
Go to the website of Madan Puraskar Pustakalaya, ie. www.mpp.org.np.
or directly to - http://www.mpp.org.np/download_details.php#U_roman
Download nepali unicode romanized, install it.
Configure it by going to control panel, language and regional settings.(instructions are given in the link.)
Press Alt+Shift.
अनि तपाइ पनि टाइप गर्नुस् हामी जस्तै नेपालीमा। अंग्रेजीमा फर्कन फेरी थिच्नुस् Alt+Shift.
Hope this helps.